I was taught ‘just because you can, doesn’t mean you should’. I think we need to focus on what needs to be addressed here, on this planet, the billion people without clean drinking water or the starving children throughout our planet. We need to have a vision for helping each other and our local communities before we go off and ‘explore’ an uninhabitable planet.
One initial thought I have on this, and the reason why I will continue shaking my head sadly at the national leadership of my country.
You have written at length, Hadden, about the importance of concern for one's local community, and I heartily agree with your perspective on the subject. It seems to me that so many people in our technologically globalized culture have become convinced that it is more beneficial to while away their days thinking and talking and writing about the problems of the world, without taking action to remedy the problems of their own towns and neighbourhoods. It is easier to talk like you love your neighbour who is far away, than actively love those who live near at hand. This idea of colonizing Mars is, I think, this misguided mindset taken to the extreme.
Rather than concerning ourselves with the world which we have, which is full of brokenness and hurt, and people living in fear and loneliness, problems which we can address now, we have decided on a global scale to spend our time and resources trying to flea to another planet. To do what? To set up another kingdom of disordered loves, of profit and plastic?
I would rather work to create and nurture a life of beauty and wonder in this miraculous world which I have already been gifted, than go off into a desert far away, convinced that I will somehow build paradise in the rocks by use of my own wisdom.
This is brilliant Joel, especially this "To do what? To set up another kingdom of disordered loves, of profit and plastic" Exactly right. It is the same people who will be colonising Mars who have lived limitlessly here and caused so much ill and damage. Mars simply presents them another opportunity to live out their limitless fantasies.
Martian manifest destiny is as preposterous as the first American manifest destiny, at least insofar as its proponents frame it as a path to saving the world.
It's basically religious eschatology in each case.
I'm not opposed to going to Mars, I guess. Sure it's a waste of money but it will produce interesting results and as far as government expenditures go, relatively inoffensive.
I definitely think that Wendell Berry is the voice for wise limits. I am a long-time admirer of the back-to-the-landers of the 1970s, Helen and Scott Nearing, for the same reason. At the same time, I recognize the tension between human yearning for exploration and the need for restraint. Discernment is the key. If the likes of Bezos and Musk see how we are trashing the Earth and think certain humans need a back-up plan, that is not a good reason to colonize Mars.
Thanks Cathy, I had not heard of the Nearing's before. Thank you for putting them on my radar. Always a good day when one discovers more "good life" thinkers!
(Sorry about the paywall, I know this letter from the actual book rather than online).
He argues that solving the problems of such a complex challenge create solutions to many challenges we face here on earth. He also alludes to the ways that extra-planetary projects have fostered cooperation between nations that are otherwise at odds. He describes how seeing ourselves and our planet from new vantage points fosters perspective and affection for humanity. And he mentions that value of aspirational projects for creating inspiration and optimism that can be turned towards our problems here on earth.
Regardless of whether Manifest Destiny is a driver for Musk, I can easily see all of the above consequences applying to his efforts.
This is really interesting Sage, thank you. I had not considered these more positive perspectives, which is a healthy counterbalance to my scepticism. As you say, this is a complex problem and the motives and values behind the drivers and desires are likely to be equally complex.
Thanks for this Neal, this is very interesting and helpful. I havn't come across Berry's statements on the Moon exploration yet in my reading. Do you have reference? I would love to cite this in my piece.
Perhaps my last reference unless I find a real doozy, but Wendell cites "space exploration" as an example of "the pipe dream of limitlessness" in his 2016 speech to the Land Institute. Can't find a transcript of that speech, but the video is available here: https://landinstitute.org/video-audio/land-people-proper-economy/
Also, not what I was thinking of (see below; I will keep looking) but see the tense exchange (in 1976?) between Wendell and Stewart Brand about the value of space colonies. I believe the exchange was published in Brand's book, Space Colonies, but it is also found at this webpage: https://nss.org/settlement/nasa/CoEvolutionBook/DEBATE3.HTML
I never like to assume I know what a person would say in a certain situation since I've changed my perspective about a lot of things in my life. I think we should be careful of assuming that we always know the motives of other people too. You may not love the idea of going to Mars (I personally have no interest either), but part of the human experience is testing boundaries. We'd know nothing of Wendell Berry if it were not for "modern" technology of book presses. Our political biases come into play as well. If a well-respected environmentalist suddenly came out for space exploration, we might view it more openly (even if we disagreed). And who gets to decide which limits should be tested? A strict Amish leader? An artist? If "ordinary" people really wanted to block all technological progress in search of some utopian, pastoral past then they'd have the power of numbers. But even the past was fraught with moral nuances.
I have no desire to go to Mars. I also have no desire in stopping others who would choose such a pursuit, so long as that pursuit does not hinder my decision to say on Earth and enjoy all it has to offer.
Is it a waste of money and resources? Perhaps, but again, who am I to tell someone else that they shouldn't pursue something? And, even if I did feel okay stopping them from doing so that's not to say that they're suddenly going to instead spend their creative energy and endless resources pursuing what I deem important or worthy....and what if I'm wrong?
If Musk wants to go to Mars, have at it but leave me and my tax dollars out of it.
Indeed, I think the crucial issue here is will tax dollars be spent on someone's fantasy. The fact that NASA seem to hold this vision in equal measure doesn't give me much hope...
I was taught ‘just because you can, doesn’t mean you should’. I think we need to focus on what needs to be addressed here, on this planet, the billion people without clean drinking water or the starving children throughout our planet. We need to have a vision for helping each other and our local communities before we go off and ‘explore’ an uninhabitable planet.
Indeed, well said NilaMae. This is going to form a core part of my argument.
One initial thought I have on this, and the reason why I will continue shaking my head sadly at the national leadership of my country.
You have written at length, Hadden, about the importance of concern for one's local community, and I heartily agree with your perspective on the subject. It seems to me that so many people in our technologically globalized culture have become convinced that it is more beneficial to while away their days thinking and talking and writing about the problems of the world, without taking action to remedy the problems of their own towns and neighbourhoods. It is easier to talk like you love your neighbour who is far away, than actively love those who live near at hand. This idea of colonizing Mars is, I think, this misguided mindset taken to the extreme.
Rather than concerning ourselves with the world which we have, which is full of brokenness and hurt, and people living in fear and loneliness, problems which we can address now, we have decided on a global scale to spend our time and resources trying to flea to another planet. To do what? To set up another kingdom of disordered loves, of profit and plastic?
I would rather work to create and nurture a life of beauty and wonder in this miraculous world which I have already been gifted, than go off into a desert far away, convinced that I will somehow build paradise in the rocks by use of my own wisdom.
This is brilliant Joel, especially this "To do what? To set up another kingdom of disordered loves, of profit and plastic" Exactly right. It is the same people who will be colonising Mars who have lived limitlessly here and caused so much ill and damage. Mars simply presents them another opportunity to live out their limitless fantasies.
Martian manifest destiny is as preposterous as the first American manifest destiny, at least insofar as its proponents frame it as a path to saving the world.
It's basically religious eschatology in each case.
I'm not opposed to going to Mars, I guess. Sure it's a waste of money but it will produce interesting results and as far as government expenditures go, relatively inoffensive.
I definitely think that Wendell Berry is the voice for wise limits. I am a long-time admirer of the back-to-the-landers of the 1970s, Helen and Scott Nearing, for the same reason. At the same time, I recognize the tension between human yearning for exploration and the need for restraint. Discernment is the key. If the likes of Bezos and Musk see how we are trashing the Earth and think certain humans need a back-up plan, that is not a good reason to colonize Mars.
Thanks Cathy, I had not heard of the Nearing's before. Thank you for putting them on my radar. Always a good day when one discovers more "good life" thinkers!
I'm somewhat compelled by Ernst Stuhlinger's answer to this: https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/why-explore-space
(Sorry about the paywall, I know this letter from the actual book rather than online).
He argues that solving the problems of such a complex challenge create solutions to many challenges we face here on earth. He also alludes to the ways that extra-planetary projects have fostered cooperation between nations that are otherwise at odds. He describes how seeing ourselves and our planet from new vantage points fosters perspective and affection for humanity. And he mentions that value of aspirational projects for creating inspiration and optimism that can be turned towards our problems here on earth.
Regardless of whether Manifest Destiny is a driver for Musk, I can easily see all of the above consequences applying to his efforts.
This is really interesting Sage, thank you. I had not considered these more positive perspectives, which is a healthy counterbalance to my scepticism. As you say, this is a complex problem and the motives and values behind the drivers and desires are likely to be equally complex.
A perfect mockery of the preposterous idea of going to Mars comes contemporarily from Greta Thunberg, in a one-minute video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk-jfAg1F3A
I suppose, Wendel Berry would consider the idea of leaving the Earth not even worth his time to discuss.
Some time ago I tried to put some thoughts on the topic, too:
https://jacekgodlewski.substack.com/p/earthlings-on-mars-salvation-or-a
Thanks Jacek, I have saved your piece to read. I always find you very perceptive.
And I agree, I think Mr. Berry would consider the idea absurd.
Thanks for including us as you work on your next piece. It’s fun to hear how you’re working things out.
Pretty sure Wendell and Tanya oppose the Mars fantasy. They have spoken, unequivocally, against expenditures for Moon exploration for decades.
Thanks for this Neal, this is very interesting and helpful. I havn't come across Berry's statements on the Moon exploration yet in my reading. Do you have reference? I would love to cite this in my piece.
"Discipline and Hope" in A Continuous Harmony. p. 90 of Harvest edition of Harcourt Brace book, © 1972.
I also remember Wendell and Tanya talking about the folly of space exploration in an interview they did. I'll try to find a reference to that.
Perhaps my last reference unless I find a real doozy, but Wendell cites "space exploration" as an example of "the pipe dream of limitlessness" in his 2016 speech to the Land Institute. Can't find a transcript of that speech, but the video is available here: https://landinstitute.org/video-audio/land-people-proper-economy/
This is brilliant, thanks so much Neal. Going to spend some time reading through these.
Also, not what I was thinking of (see below; I will keep looking) but see the tense exchange (in 1976?) between Wendell and Stewart Brand about the value of space colonies. I believe the exchange was published in Brand's book, Space Colonies, but it is also found at this webpage: https://nss.org/settlement/nasa/CoEvolutionBook/DEBATE3.HTML
I never like to assume I know what a person would say in a certain situation since I've changed my perspective about a lot of things in my life. I think we should be careful of assuming that we always know the motives of other people too. You may not love the idea of going to Mars (I personally have no interest either), but part of the human experience is testing boundaries. We'd know nothing of Wendell Berry if it were not for "modern" technology of book presses. Our political biases come into play as well. If a well-respected environmentalist suddenly came out for space exploration, we might view it more openly (even if we disagreed). And who gets to decide which limits should be tested? A strict Amish leader? An artist? If "ordinary" people really wanted to block all technological progress in search of some utopian, pastoral past then they'd have the power of numbers. But even the past was fraught with moral nuances.
I have no desire to go to Mars. I also have no desire in stopping others who would choose such a pursuit, so long as that pursuit does not hinder my decision to say on Earth and enjoy all it has to offer.
Is it a waste of money and resources? Perhaps, but again, who am I to tell someone else that they shouldn't pursue something? And, even if I did feel okay stopping them from doing so that's not to say that they're suddenly going to instead spend their creative energy and endless resources pursuing what I deem important or worthy....and what if I'm wrong?
If Musk wants to go to Mars, have at it but leave me and my tax dollars out of it.
Indeed, I think the crucial issue here is will tax dollars be spent on someone's fantasy. The fact that NASA seem to hold this vision in equal measure doesn't give me much hope...